29 Comments

Emily, thank you for writing this piece. I had the same initial reaction to Amelia's piece (which was excellent), and you've unpacked the reasons why the answer to Amelia's question is "no" so well!

Recently I've realised that every choice, every decision, comes with trade offs. I recently turned down a part time HR role, it was exceptionally well paid for the hours, and the UK has just expanded state funded childcare, so we would have had a very small childcare bill. Initially it seemed like a no brainer to take the position, but then I thought about putting my 2 year old and 9 month old in daycare three days a week and I felt such a visceral and deep sadness. We didn't desperately need the extra income so I decided not to accept the role. Every other mum I spoke to told me enthusiastically that this was a great opportunity, it would give me "work life balance" because the role was part time, and that I should definitely take the job. I remember thinking, "but I don't want balance, I want to be a mother".

I do run a small business from home, I help plan and coordinate weddings for people. Your point about women needing flexible and ideally family centred childcare is absolutely true. I could not run my business, small as it is, without the help of my mum and my sisters. I have a wedding today, and my mum is helping my husband care for our two children, whilst my sister is assisting me with the wedding. There is tension even in maintaining this small amount of work outside the home. I love the weddings once I'm there, it is an opportunity to use my creative and organisational skills, and helping facilitate such joyful moments is truly an honour, but I find it very jarring switching from 'work' mode to 'mom' mode.

Also, YES to bringing back the cottage industry. Or as I like to call it, the productive household. How to do this has become a preoccupation for me. When I start my podcast (I've told myself this IS happening haha) this is one of the threads I want to explore.

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Becca I really enjoyed reading this comment!

As to what you said about that job you were offered, I think I can say with full confidence that you will never regret listening to that visceral reaction you had. That reaction was telling you that it isn’t time for that sort of transition, and your children and your own heart and soul will thank you for heeding the call of your intuition!

And the work mode to mom mode thing is SO real. I work 12 hour shifts twice a week and my children are still up most of the time when I get home and shifting into bath-time and story time and brushing teeth etc after being in critical thinking/problem solving/high alert mode for hours all day (plus an hour drive each way), it honestly about takes me out! I feel like a different person and really struggle with my mama duties after those days and have to force myself to go through the movements. And the same goes for the opposite-the Friday evening before my weekend shifts I am usually sad and anxious anticipating having to turn into my more efficient critical thinking self the next morning. I often feel we (or at least me!) are not meant to be divided in such a dramatic way and that this division is a real source of maternal strife.

I also cannot wait for your podcast and look forward to that conversation!

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Urgh yes I get the anxiety the day before as well. Weddings are so different to healthcare in many ways, but they are also a high pressure, high stress environment and I also feel like I’m a different person, it’s almost a persona that I put on, but it leaves me SO drained. It’s rough. I agree that we probably aren’t meant to experience this kind of dramatic switch between roles/environments.

Ahh thankyou. You are one of the people I most want to interview so I will be messaging you as soon as I have figured out the logistics and designed a terrible cover photo in Canva.

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Hahaha well wonderful, looking forward to both the interview and your logo!

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This is excellent. I appreciate you honestly addressing the questions that unflinchingly looks at what can and cannot happen when it comes to work, childcare, and the female body. Having kids has made me realize how very selfish I am, and how much our culture pushes a “me first mindset” that would have my children as auxiliaries/pieces to my personal flourishing rather than as God given gifts I am to help serve (and as part of that serving become a better version of myself). I’m working on unlearning the dominant mindset every day, and despite the hair tearing tough days, I am finding deep joy in being creative and being home. I’ve spent more time writing/learning crafting/home skills as a Mom than I did as a full time teacher as it turns out

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Thank you Elise. I think some level of selfishness is normal human nature and have felt those same feelings—it is the current state of industry that completely perverts those natural inclinations though. I think motherhood is certainly the perfect way to confront them as well, and in fact think that it is designed to do so.

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Great questions and answers. Such dialogue gives me hope for my daughters!

As I read this, I think one other phase of life is missing: the single woman having some adventures. BUT I think the single woman should remain celibate* for this time, and give herself 100% to whatever work or project she is doing. And this time has a limit on it: maybe a couple of years, maybe a little more, but not more than 5. I say this in part because when I think back to my youth, I can’t fathom marrying and having children in my early 20s. Maybe I just lack imagination. And obviously it is an option for some people. But others might need a different kind of challenge, and there is something awesome about channeling sexual and generative energy into a project that is fertile in a less material sense.

*To those who would snort and say celibacy is impossible, I paraphrase CS Lewis (I think) “People who have never tried something have no business saying it is impossible.” But such a path must be freely chosen, of course.

I have more to say about all these questions, but maybe I should just write my own essay!

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I suppose since I did have a child by age 21 and the years spent between high school and getting pregnant at 20 were full of adventures of the more sordid sort for myself, I didn’t consider this side of things! I do agree though. Those “maiden” years are ripe with lessons and possibilities and celibacy as an option is definitely dismissed. I don’t know how I feel completely about celibacy being prescribed for young adult women though, I will have to think about it more. Thank you for the grounds for further thought here!

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Excellent point on celibacy! This topic is often scoffed at, but there are many historical examples of celibate, single women whose lives and works have been very fruitful. A season of celibate singleness can be very fruitful in itself for a woman and provide much intellectual, spiritual, and physical preparation for her future years as wife and mother.

If you do write that essay (go for it! :)), count me as a reader! I think this is a very vital topic! :)

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Excellent essay, Emily! As always, your clarity and well-made distinctions have wonderfully illuminated my exploration of these topics, some of which I've been thinking about since giving birth for the first time months ago.

I love that last paragraph--how powerful. Our current society places value on persons based on whether they contribute to the economy and market in a direct way through professional vocations. But the familial vocations that are the life blood of human existence, these are overlooked as some secondary accident of life. Not to say that economic reality is not important. But money is meant to serve the home; the home does not exist for the sake of making money. We have got to get our hierarchy of values correct.

When you talk about how birth and motherhood have transformed you, you speak to something I've been experiencing in this season of life as a new mother. Reminds me of the scripture verse 1 Timothy 2:15: "Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty." There's much to be explored theologically here, but my life as a mother serves as a testament of how childbearing has saved me--from the erroneous views of my earlier youth, from the disconnect between body, mind, and spirit that caused me so much pain in my past. Childbearing has recalibrated my existence in many ways, the most important for me being the reestablished, embodied relationship I feel with the God who made me and gives me my children. (I thank Him for creating the wonderful creature that is woman. :) )

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I really appreciate the idea of “recalibration” via birth, I think there is an actual physical phenomenon that does in fact occur that brings about this sort of return to natural baseline, maybe one that some slip further and further away from in our years before motherhood. I know that much is true for myself, and the experience of birth brings me back into myself in a new way every time. So many congratulations to you on your own motherhood and your sweet baby!

Also, to add to your second paragraph—I feel that society and industry forgets that women birth the work force and that the home is what raises the work force. If mothers and homemaking were revered in the way they should be, the market would be healthier.

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I really appreciate the idea of “recalibration” via birth, I think there is an actual physical phenomenon that does in fact occur that brings about this sort of return to natural baseline, maybe one that some slip further and further away from in our years before motherhood. I know that much is true for myself, and the experience of birth brings me back into myself in a new way every time. So many congratulations to you on your own motherhood and your sweet baby!

Also, to add to your second paragraph—I feel that society and industry forgets that women birth the work force and that the home is what raises the work force. If mothers and homemaking were revered in the way they should be, the market would be healthier.

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Thank you thank you! 👏🏼

I also find there’s a big difference between “work” and “career.” Trying to make some work happen is a lot more feasible, and desiring it is a lot less fraught, than trying to make and maintain a career per se. And the desire to have a career for the sake of having a career is a lot more fraught than desiring to do x or y activity because of talents and passions.

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Very apt points. If one enjoys a meaningful career that is well-paying and the like, I can of course understand that choosing to give that up in favor of motherhood and homemaking is a very different experience than say, giving up a job at the grocery store or a factory or something along those lines.

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Wonderful as always Emily. I find myself agreeing with all your points wholeheartedly! The home needs us. The times after motherhood when I've worked full-time have been challenging, bordering on the impossible. I was not able to be truly good at any role when working full time, not good at being a parent, not good at being a wife, and not good at providing what I knew we needed nutritionally. I was a nutritionist once upon a time and there I was, feeding us frozen pizza!

I worked part-time self-employed while my daughter was very young, then full-time at a 'regular' job once she started school. Now I'm back to part-time as the teen years come upon us and I have recognized the importance of being available through this critical stage. Much like the toddler years! This is just sort of the way it all worked out, I didn't plan it this way, except for my current firm decision to hold only part-time work until I am required less at home.

I am hopeful for change, but more than that I think women are just going to stop. Unless someone has a driving purpose to a particular career, doing bits and pieces of all sorts of paid jobs can be much more fun. I worked in a riding school as a teenager and then ran one myself for a few years, did 8 years in fitness/health, 5 years in agriculture, 9 months (🤣) in agriculture retail and now I'm a support worker in the care sector, and a content creator (gosh I hate that term but it is what it is). Plus all sorts of other things that I didn't do enough of to count, but still gave me money, skills and opportunities. I think that's a lot more interesting than being on a particular career track that takes away your options to sway with life as it blows through.

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I do appreciate you sharing all of this, Sam. I too have worked full time in motherhood and felt a lot of the same. It’s an impossible task. And as you say here, the teen years are equally as demanding as the younger years! I have a daughter about to turn 13 and toddlers right now so it goes without saying—the idea of working full time sends me reeling!

And what you said about doing bits and pieces of various sorts of work while simultaneously mothering just goes to show how versatile we are, and all of those experiences will serve you well as you move into future endeavors!

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And your children's adulthood often comes with sweet demands of your time, presence, attention, and the forging of new relationships as a grandmother. I thought menopause would be a quieter time, but my youngest is twelve years old, and my sixth little grandbaby is due next February. People told me often that motherhood meant working yourself "out of a job", but you are binding a net of closeness and connection that does not disappear when your last child turns 18.

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Couldn’t agree more! Just published a newsletter this morning on the EXACT same topic.

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Thank you Elena! I will be sure to read yours today!

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I really enjoy your work, it’s always well-written and very thought provoking. I agree with so much here…but not all of it. I’m Catholic and that may be why my perspective is different, but I’ve always agreed with (Catholic Mom of six and stand-up comic) Jen Fulweiler that women often feel like we have to live up to some feminine ideal to be mothers. But before the era of reliable contraception, almost all married women were mothers, whether or not they fit the feminine ideal - soft, creative etc.

I am a lawyer, I am naturally smart. I know that I am basically asking a man to contradict me here, but I always knew I was smart. And I know I am a good lawyer. Sometimes I feel like the question of what women are allowed to want applies here too. My best friend is a female surgeon. She is also smart. Does the fact we want to work, the fact that we are smart, somehow make us less feminine? Does it mean we “shouldn’t” be mothers? And why is it that we are the ones who are told we shouldn’t be working outside the home?

I agree with you that motherhood is more important than any of these things, and that working outside of the home is not ideal for the mothers of young kids. But there are plenty of women who do it, and it’s not always because they have to. And just because a woman wants to work doesn’t mean she’s less of a woman or less of a Mom, you know?

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Firstly, thank you for the kind words on my writing, I truly appreciate it.

To respond to your thoughts, I don’t hold women to any sort of ideal that includes being soft, gentle and the like. I do believe we ask have an innate creativity though, and that this can be expressed in many ways—including being a lawyer. Are you not creating relationships, solutions, ideas and concepts that help your clients in that work? Is your friend not creating healing and solutions for her patients? I am not particularly prescriptive about motherhood, either, but the reality is that the majority of women (over 80%) do still become mothers. This being the case and the fact that motherhood is central to the experience of what it is to be female (it is a literal expression of female physiology), I think that this discussion is worth having.

I’m not sure where you are seeing me insinuate that women with careers are less feminine or should not be mothers. I have a career, it may not be as prestigious as medicine or law, but I am a nurse. I simply don’t align myself with the work I do for pay more than I do with the work I do for free because it is my responsibility and highest calling-motherhood. I do believe that if we are mothers, no matter how much we enjoy our careers, we must choose to conceive of our motherhood as that highest calling—for the sake of our children and our souls/sanity. Anything less is out of alignment with natural law.

The question “is the fact that we are smart make us less feminine” reveals that my perception of femininity and your own are vastly different I suppose. I perceive intelligence, cleverness, inquisitiveness, and ingenuity to have very distinctive feminine manifestations. I would argue that your profession and intelligence are uniquely feminine, in fact.

As for your last paragraph, I don’t believe in the idea of “less than a woman”. If a person is an adult human female, they are a woman. I don’t believe in “less of a mother” either-if a female person has children, she is a mothers. These terms are physiological and representative of relationships to me. That said, if a woman has small children whose care most ideally should be provided by her for their optimal development and happiness and still chooses to work full time if she does not financially have to—I do think this speaks to a certain callousness and narcissism in her nature that is not indicative of the most ideal mothering qualities. If a fellow female mammal with babies chose to abandon her children in favor of her work (yes, I realize there are certain types of mammals like rabbits that do this-the difference is they are DESIGNED to do this due to their nutritional needs and patterns. Their breast milk is composed in such a way that allows them to feed very intermittently in favor of foraging, whereas the milk of a human mother is composed in such a way that means our babies need to nurse much more often in order to survive, therefore we are meant to be in constant close contact. Similar to a cat or dog or bear), what would we say of it? The brutal truth is that we would say she isn’t a good mother.

To add to this, of course human beings are very different than other animals, we have many unique qualities that make this so, and much of those qualities lend themselves to our work and hobbies and ambitions that we pursue outside of parenting. And yet, to all things there is a physiological foundation. Without biological implications being met for our children, moving onto more conceptual, intellectual, and philosophical endeavors as their mothers absolutely has consequences, whether we like it or not.

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My mother was a stay at home mom till I was a teenager, then she did make a (bumpy, but ultimately successful) return to work. I have many great memories of my childhood, and some not so great, too.

I wanted children from about age 20, I think. However I never saw myself as a stay at home mom and I also have always had a sneaking suspicion I wouldn’t be a very good one. I did get a taste thanks to Canada’s generous maternity leave options, and the fact that my career (unionized teacher) is quite family-friendly. But I always knew it was temporary and I was most likely going back to work full time, which I did.

Thinking about it, the three biggest factors I’m not home all the time with the kids are:

1) my husband has a serious autoimmune disease, and my employee benefits help pay for the expensive drugs that are keeping him in remission. Also, while he is doing well for the most part there’s always a possibility he may get very sick and I need to be the main income earner.

2) while nothing is perfect, my career feels compatible with being a mom. My hours are pretty reasonable. I have time off in the summers. We have family and friends for support and had very good experiences with professional childcare. Also, though it took a few years and there were rough patches, I’m in a position where I’m not overly stressed.

3) I have a very deep fear of isolation. This probably stems from childhood experiences. While I grew up in a very close and loving family I didn’t have many connections to the larger community and this felt debilitating. I am a much more confident person enmeshed in my work and club and extended family networks, and it’s very hard to walk away from something. I kind of need to be forced out my shell, and I know it.

Anyway. None of this necessarily generalizes to other people but there has to be a healthy appreciation that people and situations differ.

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Hi! As a woman who is also Catholic, loves Jen Fulwiler, and almost went to law school, I'm really interested in your perspective here. What parts of this piece do you find yourself disagreeing with? I think we absolutely do need women in professional fields, and I don't think Emily would disagree! To me what's being said is that culture and workplaces need to adjust to womanhood, not the other way around as has been (mostly) the case. Even women who aren't mothers are not the same hormonally as men and would benefit from less masculine frameworks in our culture (and therefore in our places of employment).

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Maybe a better way to phrase it is that I’m curious about the following - if domestic life and life inside the home is the feminine sphere, is work outside the home (the courtroom, the operating room) the “masculine sphere”? And are women like St. Gianna Molla, for example, who want to work outside of the home when their kids are small less feminine? What if you want to work a job where having children around isn’t possible? Does this make you less of a woman, or mean you are brainwashed by feminism?

I am resistant to the idea that there’s one way of being a woman or that all women want the same things, which may not be what this piece is saying, but I do think the notion of a “feminine sphere” risks flattening women’s desires and experiences.

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I hear you and have wrestled with these things myself. (Still am!)

I’ll say that for me, a pretty energetically masculine woman, I’m not *as* drawn to traditionally feminine activities or hobbies as other women, but I still am drawn to them. And when I’ve dug into my resistance to things like homemaking, for example, what was really there was not a lack of desire to do it, but rather a) a sense that I didn’t want to be looked down on or taken for granted, and b) honestly, my own incompetence. It was easier to say I didn’t want to be doing that anyway, or I don’t care about it as much as other women, and instead lean hard into my natural strengths (intellect being one of them) that made me feel good about myself. But when I was honest, I found that yes I want to do intellectual work out in the world (hence my freelance work and writing here), but I also very much want to tend to our home and our children—and I need to lean into/grow in my feminine energy to be able to do that well.

These are tricky times to talk about men and women, masculinity and femininity. And I do agree there’s a danger of gross and unhelpful reductionism. I personally wouldn’t say I’ve seen that in Emily’s writing.

Here for this conversation!

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Oct 29Edited

I genuinely love my job and never want to stop working. Even if I won the lottery and never had to work again, I would still want to do what I do! Love is about connection and how can there be connection between my child and I if I have to efface something so fundamental to what makes me me? Luckily, my parents set a great example. Much like you suggest women stay at home while children are young and pursue careers later in life, that's what my dad did! Like me, my mom had this wonderful drive while my dad was on a different path. My sister and I had a mostly stay at home dad through middle school and when we were older he went to school and became a nurse (working along-side many women )! I think I've found a similar man :)

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I enjoyed this so much. Going to re read! Especially re being part time with work while my child is at home. And also with the social media pieces. Looking forward to diving into your work more. 💓

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Your larger points have merit, but if you’re a nurse you should understand why it’s a bad idea to have a sleeping baby on your back on the job.

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It is because I am a nurse that I know why it could work in some cases. I’m not suggesting bringing a baby into a negative pressure room for a TB patient! But attending a home birth as an assistant with a baby on your back, or doing postpartum nursing with a baby on your back, or doing biometrics for Oc Health, or doing diabetic teaching, etc etc etc…these would all be perfectly fine. Also the need to bend over and move is a non issue, baby carriers make this fairly easy (I feel like gardening with a baby on my back is more labor intensive than nursing care would be, and that still gets done).

Of course we need to use common sense here, there are many exceptions to what I said, but there are also many ways it could work.

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